The Eigencast 022: Pegasystems

The EigencastJustin talks to Alan Trefler, Founder and CEO of Pegasystems, about what it means to write code without actually writing code.

They talk about how Alan believes writing code at the level we do today is ‘absurd’ and how he thinks we should be operating computers more like cars. They reminisce about 4GL systems in days of yore, and why they failed.

They dig into what AI means for future computer and human systems, and whether the current crop of systems claiming AI are anything truly great, or just fancy if, then, else scripts.

They talk about how great computers systems, at their best, are tools to aid human understanding and decision making, and that a lot of the grunt work is already automated, and that much more of it really should be.

All models are wrong, but some are useful. What are you using to model your processes?


  • 00:00:00.000 Intro
  • 00:00:15.856 Episode Intro
  • 00:03:05.352 Interview
  • 00:03:25.163 What is Pega?
  • 00:08:34.268 More than a 4GL
  • 00:11:06.726 Coding is absurd
  • 00:13:06.300 What does using Pega look like?
  • 00:16:02.142 Virtual Robots
  • 00:19:00.124 All abord the AI roundabout
  • 00:23:19.399 AI helping humans
  • 00:32:08.691 Computer as support system
  • 00:34:33.830 The perils of technology
  • 00:36:21.990 Systematic Luck
  • 00:41:27.127 Powerpoint Compiler
  • 00:43:53.771 Outtakes




This episode of The Eigencast was sponsored by PivotNine. Research, analysis, advice.



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  1. Excellent conversation.

    Love the bit about expert Pega systems aiding the empathetic customer support representative to help customers faster and more effectively!

  2. Thanks, David. Smart companies use computers to support their people, not to merely replace them. Replace tasks, not people.

  3. Awesome podcast! Love how they tackle the role of computers in human work/tasks!

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